Wentworth Miller | Full Q&A | Oxford Union Society
(Audience's applause.)
H:
Get some water first. (Laughs.) So, you
know, Wentworth and I both were rather nervous about this.
WM:
Yes.
H:
It’s both our first times, so… (Laughs.)
WM:
We’re on the same page.
H:
(laughs) So, I wanted to start with the
fact that, as you were saying, you were born not far away from here, in Chipping
Norton, your father was a Rhodes scholar. Do you feel a connection to the UK,
to Oxford? Coming back, how does it feel?
WM:
I do, it’s a… well, first of all, thank you for having me and thank you for
coming out this afternoon. It’s my real pleasure to be here, it does feel like
a homecoming of sorts, which is strange because I’ve no recollection of Oxford
whatsoever. My family left when I was one, we moved back to the States, but I
do feel… I do feel like I have roots here.
H:
Going on to your family, then. Your father was a Rhodes scholar, and on your
Wikipedia page it says how many different countries you have ancestry to. What
was it like growing up in something like that, do you feel connection? Do you
feel cultured in a way, because of that?
WM:
Right into race. (Exhales, laughs.)
(Audience laughs.)
WM:
I do, I feel… I feel honoured to have a variety of ancestries that I can think
about and call on when I need to. I have ancestors who were slaves in the
American South, I have ancestors who were coal miners in the small towns
throughout Pennsylvania, and there have been times in my life when I have needed
to draw on some reserve of courage and endurance and perseverance, and the
thought of what my family has gone through, their various struggles and
achievements, what they’ve overcome, the mere fact that I exist because they
persevered, has given me strength.
H:
And how does that relate to your career, then? Have you been able to draw on
aspects of that in particular roles, has it been able to be a transition from
your personal life to your professional life, I guess?
WM:
It’s a complicated question with a lot of moving parts. I feel as though there
is a parallel between who I am as a person and the road that I’ve walked and
the parts that I’ve been able to play, I think. Michael Scofield, for example,
on “Prison Break.” Part of his appeal is that he is an escape artist, he’s a
survivor. He’s someone who has been through extreme circumstances, and I think
that to watch him on his journey, to see him constantly turning straw into gold
is inspiring, it’s something that everyone can relate to in their own way. And
it’s certainly something that I can relate to personally.
H:
So perhaps you could tell us then a little bit more about your creative process
and the artistic process with which you approach each role.
WM:
It’s kind of a hodge-podge. I studied at a variety of different schools. I
think, in the end, an actor has to find what works for them. For me… I do look for
a personal connection with the character, how can I relate to the circumstances
in which they find themselves. It’s also about archetype. Storytelling is a
centuries-old tradition. And there’s the Warrior archetype, the Magician
archetype, the King archetype, the Lover archetype. Figuring out which one of those
my character resonates with most strongly and tapping into that in whatever way
that looks like. And sometimes that might be a song, that might be a piece of
art, that might be a photograph from my own childhood, something that makes me
feel connected to the character on a personal level.
H:
That, I guess, does that kind of tie into… So, you did an English literature
major at Princeton. Do you feel that was a good grounding for then what you
have put in your career?
WM:
I think so. I think, having read a lot of books and written abоut a lot of
books throughout my college career, analyzing a text, investigating character
and theme and dialogue – all of that comes into play when I’m sitting with the
script and trying to familiarize myself with the part that I’ve been cast in,
sure.
H:
So, what’s the best piece of advice you’ve ever been given? Because Oxford is
full of aspiring actors and actresses. What would you say is the best piece of
advice that you’ve ever been given?
WM:
I think you want to go in and… not necessarily… not necessarily play what you
think they’re hoping to see, but play your best version of the character. The
advice I got once upon a time was “don’t read the breakdowns.” There is something
in the United States, when they’re casting for a movie or for a TV show, they
will provide what’s called the breakdowns – and they have a list of the
characters that they are looking to cast with a description of each character,
and sometimes [they] will literally say, “We’re looking for a young Tom Hanks.”
And if you’re a young Tom Hanks, then the part is probably yours, like, go get
it. If you’re a young John Malkovich, then it might not be the right fit, so if
you go in, and you’re a young John Malkovich, and you do your best young Tom
Hanks impersonation, you’re not gonna get the part, and not only are you not
gonna get the part, but they’re gonna think, “Wow, that guy is… back to class,
maybe.” What you want to do is go in and show them your best young John
Malkovich, even if it’s not right for the part, because you won’t get that part
because that’s not what they’re looking for, but they will remember, “Wow, that
was a fantastic young John Malkovich. I’ll keep that guy in mind for the next
time.”
H:
So, that was kind of… I guess that relates to your role in “The Human Stain”
where you were, I guess, a young Anthony Hopkins, in a way. What was that like?
WM:
What was gratifying about that experience was [that] I didn’t have to
particularly worry about being a young Anthony Hopkins. We actually shot my
part of the movie first which was set back in the 1950s. And then he went and
watched those dailies, so he actually modeled himself after me, which I found
flattering, it’s at least.
(WM and the audience laugh.)
H:
So, I suppose that kind of leads on to, then, some of your other roles, as you
were breaking through, kind of, before “Prison Break.” What stuck out to you,
what was it like trying to get into the world of Hollywood acting?
WM:
Momento?
H:
(laughs) So, can you tell us,
basically, a little bit about your first roles, kind of, pre-“Prison Break”?
How you managed to become the actor that you are today?
WM:
Well, I think what I went through was a process of trial and error. I think for
a long time I was a young John Malkovich trying to be a young Tom Hanks, I was
trying to fit myself into a round hole when I was, in fact, a square peg. I
used to walk into auditions and treat them like job interviews, especially
right after college, like, “Hey, how are you, I’m the guy for the job, I will memorize
all my lines, I’ll show up on time.” That’s not necessarily what they’re
wanting to see. What they’re wanting to see is you, what you have to bring to
the table that is unique, that’s interesting, that’s edgy. It took me a long
time to understand that the audition process is about walking into a room full
of strangers, unzipping and vomiting out your most private self and then when
the audition is done, you zip up and you go. That is the job, that is the
working definition of a professional. If someone had explained it to me in
those terms when I first graduated, when I was thinking of an audition as a job
interview scenario, I would’ve quit acting, it would’ve been too frightening to
me. So, the process of working my way up the ladder in Hollywood, frоm co-star to
guest star to series regular to series lead, dovetailed and had everything to
do with me getting more and more comfortable with showing up as I really was in
a variety of situations.
H:
Did you feel in those years, that you had much agency over the roles you were
doing, that you could be part of creating the character and making it your own,
or did you feel like it was put upon you, I guess?
WM:
Like I said, I was trying to fit myself into these containers into which I
didn’t necessarily fit easily. The fact is, Hollywood was not writing roles for
openly gay men of mixed race. They still aren’t, to a certain degree. So I was having
to choose from what was available and then worked to make myself fit. A pivotal
switch for me in my thinking about the audition process and my casting in
Hollywood was someone explaining to me that your average actor walks into these
situations, into a casting, like they’re a guest at a dinner party and they’re
afraid to track shitting on the carpet. It’s the reverse. You have to assume
the role of host, and what you’re hosting them to is you, so eventually when I
had the confidence and an increased sense of who I was and what I had to offer
as a man and as an artist, regardless of the role, regardless of what they were
looking to cast, I would just tailor it to me, I would make it my own.
H:
I suppose that leads on quite nicely then to the thing … what I’ve been
researching that’s really struck me about you, and that is your complete
confidence in your own identity and who you are, and the fact that as an openly
gay person in Hollywood, being open about the very struggles you faced and the
challenges that brings. Could you, I guess, just tell us a little bit about that
and how you’ve come to be in this position where you can speak so openly?
WM:
Well, first let’s unpack that confidence piece.
(Audience laughs.)
WM:
Right now, for example, I’m really
nervous. (Audience and WM laugh.) So,
it’s… for me it’s a “both/and” – it’s confidence and I’m also terrified. I
think of myself as a warrior but I’m also vulnerable. (Exhales sharply, audience laughs.) It’s good for me to check in
with myself and how I’m feeling, physically, like right now, for example, as I acknowledged
I’m feeling some nervousness, some anxiousness, a desire to please, some
pressure to be perfect, some pressure to speak beautifully. (Audience and WM laugh). And that’s okay
because I’m constantly, moment by moment, reminding myself that none of that is
necessary. I can show up, I’m free to show up in whatever way I find myself,
like how I am – is perfect, flaws and all. If what I say resonates with no one,
that’s fine, if what I say resonates with one person – beautiful. It’s a
constant, kind of, balance between openness and guardedness, confidence and
vulnerability. It’s not easy but it reaffirms my sense of what balance is. I
used to hear that word and I would think of this (makes a “zen” gesture) kind of Zen-like surrendered state – why, I’m balanced now. But what
balance is is more like a tight rope walker, we’re constantly having to make
little adjustments so that you don’t topple over one way or the other. That, to
me, is my new working definition of balance, and that allows me to be okay
with. I’m speaking. This is my truth. There is beauty in being self-expressed
and it’s also terrifying. It’s rewarding and I’m also regretting having come
today. (WM and the audience laugh.)
H:
(laughs) Oh no, no! Yeah…
WM:
It’s all of the above. It’s all of the above.
H:
I feel that people definitely feel with you, is the fact that because you can
be so open about how you’re feeling in such a, like, natural and honest way, is
just reassuring for everyone else to know that it’s okay. Okay, I’m also really
terrified, I also think I might stumble over my words because of… a sense of
being in it and a sense of creating a positive dialogue, I guess.
WM:
Yes, and we are in it together… (Audience
and WM laugh.) You and me, in the trenches. I look back on a period in my
life, when I was in college specifically, and the idea of sitting in this room
full of strangers and talking about depression, talking about suicide – I just
could not have dreamt of such a thing, it would’ve filled me with fear, but I
now feel as though because I’m willing to speak to these things I’m also having
to work a lot less harder than some people here because it’s one thing to be
depressed of have to deal with anxiety, it’s another to also have to work to cover
that constantly. And I spent a great deal of my life pouring a lot of time and
energy into covering, into pretending that everything was fine. And now I don’t
have to do that, like, that time and energy I can now put somewhere else, and
that’s been huge for me personally and creatively.
H:
I think that is a really powerful thing because in Oxford, I don’t know if you
know, but an estimated 50% of students at some point during their degree will have troubles with mental health. And I think,
in my opinion having a dialogue about it helps people and I get you being able
to say this to everyone must be really reassuring, and I know I’m not the only
one to think that. And I think what would you have… how would you say it to
people that you can get into this position where you are
happy with yourself? For you, what has been the process?
WM:
To go back to that straw into gold model which I think of as, you know, an alchemical
process – where we take something that is dark and edgy, our secret shames, the
things that we don’t want anyone to know, and then we make that a strength,
something that sets us apart, something that makes our story resonant and worth
telling. I had an acting coach who used to give lectures before every class,
that was his style – hashtag #ActingCoach (audience laughs) – and he… he said to us one day, “All
right, who here wants to be a star?” And we all raised our hands – “That’s why
we’re there, on a Thursday morning (audience
laughs), 10 o’clock.” And he said, “Great, I want you to go home and
make a list of everything in your life that you are ashamed of, that you would
absolutely die if anyone else found out. Just write it all down, from your
thoughts about your physicality to that time you kicked the family dog – just
list it all, that’s your first list. Things I don’t want people to know. And
then the second list – title that “Things That Are Going to Make Me a Star.”
And then you take everything from the first list and you slide it over to the
second, because that’s what we want to see when we go to the theatre, that’s
what we want to see when we turn on the TV, that’s what we want to see when we
go to the movies – we want to see other people being honest about what the
human experience is. And that’s not where I came from. In college… I remember a
very competitive environment, I remember being reminded constantly that I was
now among the best and the brightest. And it just… it just sucked the air right
out of it, it felt like there was very little room for error in that model.
That any sign of vulnerability would be perceived as a weakness. So when I did
find myself in crisis – and I spent a lot of my college years in crisis – I
didn’t turn to anyone for help as soon as I could have – as often as I could have
– because of that, because of that fear. And that’s something that I’m actively
looking to get out of my life – gently, peacefully, thoughtfully.
H:
Yeah, I think more than anything that’s got to resonate with the people here
today, the students that’ve come to hear you talk about things so apparently. So, I think that now is probably a good time to open for some
questions from the audience.
WM:
Great.
H:
So, if we go to the gentleman on the front in the middle now…
Boy:
Thank you so much for that. I’m just curious to know what does happiness mean
to you?
WM:
Happiness. It’s a great question, especially in the States there seems to be a
lot of emphasis on happiness and how can you achieve happiness. For me happiness
is not… seem like a particularly realistic goal. I set my sights on being
content, and then if I happen to experience happiness – great. One of the
things that I’ve done recently is I’ve started to pay attention to when I am
experiencing joy because it comes and goes so quickly. Where was I? What was I
listening to? Who was I with? What was I eating? These are things that are
necessary to note, so that when you are struggling, when you are not in a place
of joy you can work to recreate those moments using some of those tools in your
tool belt.
H:
Wonderful. It’s… Anyone else have a question? Yeah, if we go to… that’s right.
Girl:
I really enjoyed reading your screenplays that you’ve recently made available,
the “Stoker” and the “Uncle Charlie” ones.
WM:
Thank you.
Girl:
And I was wondering whether you are planning on doing anything more of that with
your career or whether you want to go back and focus on the acting side?
WM:
I’m not sure what the future holds for me at this point as a writer or as an
actor. Before, acting was one of the few places where I could express how I
felt, I could get my rage out, I could get my grief out. Now I do that in other
places. The same with my writing. Originally, it was about the screenplays, all
of which are autobiographical, to a certain degree, but with this safety net
that looked like, “Oh, it’s a fictional story, with fictional characters,” but
I’m really layering in a lot of, like, my own shit.” (Audience laughs.) Now it’s more about personal essays which I might
post on “Facebook,” talking about the things that are real and true for me. I see
more of that in the future. I’m not ruling out another screenplay, I’m not
ruling out another role beyond “Prison Break.” But finding different ways of
being self-expressed and telling my own story, whatever that looks like –
that’s what’s next for me. Yeah.
H:
If we go to… on the first row over here.
Girl:
You were talking about your depression, and I obviously know that you’ve been
through [it] your whole career and, like, you’re not the youngest person
anymore… not in a rude way, sorry. (WM,
the girl and the audience laugh.)
WM:
Yeah.
Girl:
How were you able to overcome all that stuff because I know that it’s very
difficult, and you’re still here?
WM:
Yes, I’m still here.
(Audience laughs.)
WM:
And I don’t mean that was a joke, I mean it as an affirmation. Depression is
not, unfortunately, one size fits all – fortunately or unfortunately – I don’t
wanna assign a value to it. It looks different for everyone. Sometimes it’s
chemical, sometimes it’s biological, can be environmental. So what works for
one person might not necessarily work for the next. What I will say is that
self-expression is huge. Having a container in which to put what is boiling up
inside of you, your anger, your fear, your guilt, your shame, finding ways to
get that out – maybe it’s on paper, maybe it’s on a canvas, maybe it’s a jog
around a school track – just get it out of you, as soon as it bubbles up, work
to get it out. Another thing is self-care. Just moments where I am doing what I
need to do to make sure that I vibrate at the right frequency that might look
like burning some sage, that might look like dinner out with a friend, that
might look like a bath with Epsom salts – just the things that I need to do for
myself that are small, doable, affordable, that nourish me. I think often we
neglect ourselves, we focus on things in the external, but there’s a lot here (gestures towards his chest) that needs
attention. The other thing I would do is to make sure that you were talking to
yourself in a way that is loving and supportive. It became clear to me at a
certain point in my life. I’ve had friendships (chuckles), I’ve been a
good friend to people, and when a friend is in crisis, I know how to be there
for them, I know how to hold space that looks like listening, it looks like
support, it looks like back and forth, maybe it just looks like a hug, maybe it
looks like being silent and just holding their hand. I know how to do that for
a friend. I realized that when I’m in crisis, when I have (makes an “air quotes” gesture), quote-unquote, “fucked up,” my
response is, “You fucking idiot,” you know. “How could you?” “Of course!” “What
did you expect?” If I spoke to my friends like I used to speak to myself, I
would have no friends. So what I
started to pay attention to (chuckles)
was how I spoke to myself out loud and in my head. And in your head is a much
more difficult conversation, but you can, I think, judge, control the words
that come out of your mouth, so if you do talk to yourself out loud – and I do
– make sure that the word are loving and supportive and nourishing. Start the work
of being your own best friend.
H:
The next question. If we go to… on the front row, we got it.
Boy:
You’re sort of touching it just then, talking about how you have, through your experiences,
been out to support other people. And, like, mental health, as Fran [the host] has said, is quite a big
issue in Oxford. And not only is this sort of, like, taking care of yourself
but it’s also how to take care of other people, and so I was wondering if you
should have given insight on the best way, through your experiences, you found
it to support other people who are depressed or going through anxiety and
stuff, so… yeah.
WM:
That’s an excellent question. And one that a lot of people wrestle with. There
are a lot of people who know someone in crisis but they’re not sure what to
say. Maybe they’re worried about saying the wrong thing. My suggestion would be
to start there, approach that person and say, “I don’t know what to say, and
I’m worried about saying the wrong thing but I see you, I feel like something’s
going on, I want you to know that I’m here for you. If you need support, I can
offer you that – you tell me what that looks like.” And that way you’ve
acknowledged that you’re unsure, you don’t know what to do or say, you’ve
acknowledged that you see them, they felt seen – they feel seen and they feel
heard and acknowledged which is huge for someone who’s in crisis. Often people
will turn a blind eye out of fear, they will just hope that that person kind of
fixes themselves and – you know, “I hope you pull yourself together and then
come back to us when you’re ‘fine.’” (Makes
“air quotes” gesture.) But it also starts a dialogue. And that’s important.
And then once you’re dialoguing with that person, once they feel like they have
your support and once you’ve given them ownership of the conversation by saying
to them, “You tell me what support looks like,” it allows them to feel that
they are, to a degree, in charge of what’s going on with them, like, they get
to make decisions which might be a new experience for them in depression, in
anxiety. Then you can start to explore what other resources are available –
maybe there’s something at the student health centre, maybe the administration
has something in place, maybe there’s a peer-to-peer counseling and support
group on campus, and if there isn’t, how do we get that started?
H:
Okay, so… If we go to… right to the back, and the orange T-shirt.
Boy:
Hello, firstly, thank you for coming here tonight. My question is, as an actor
you played so many different roles over your career, and since you mentioned
there’s somewhat honesty in the roles you play, so at some point you have to
convince yourself of the emotions that you portray in these roles, so as I see it
that there is… it’s easy to lose a sense of self between what is real and what
you’re playing as a character on the screen, right? So, how do you maintain
this balance in real life?
WM:
(exhales) Yeah, it’s a great question,
a lot of moving parts. How do I distinguish between what is real and what is
not? Sometimes it’s not easy because that is what I’m getting paid to do – to
bring truth to the situation that is a lie. To lie well or to lie as honestly
as I can is my job as an actor, from a certain perspective. When I’m playing a
scene in “Prison Break” and I’m Michael Scofield, and I’m having to rage at
someone or grieve or conjure up fear, I will draw on my own experiences. And
over the course of X number of takes, because, you know, they’ll put the camera
in different places and they’ll shoot your coverage, they’ll shoot your scene
partner’s coverage, if the scene is me getting throttled, I’ll have to be
throttled 30 or 40 times, and at a certain point (chuckles) my body starts to believe that I’m actually being throttled
because I’m selling the reality of that situation. I don’t remember in acting
class anyone ever teaching me about what happens when you’re done with the
scene and they send you home for the day, and that thing is still in you, that “Why,
I just spent the last three hours being throttled.” Now, that ties in with my
sense of how important it is to self-care. So when I’ve done a particularly
intense scene, when my body may believe that what I just shot is true, and I
have to sort of bring myself back to centre, I’ll go for a walk, I’ll meet up
with a friend, I’ll watch a movie that I know makes me laugh, I’ll engage in
the things that will bring me back to myself, that will calm myself down and
which keep me safe, ultimately.
H:
Thank you for your question. If we go to… here.
Boy:
Basically, I’m nervous like you. And I have two questions. First, we got the
student in question about happiness. I always judge the people by only question
– does the money bring happiness for you?
WM:
Does what?
Boy:
Does the money bring happiness?
WM:
Does the money bring happiness…
Boy:
Yes.
(Audience laughs.)
Boy:
A second question – I’m really keen and eager to know your stand for American election? Whether we are with Donald Trump or Hillary Clinton?
(Audience laughs.)
WM:
Hmm. (Breathes in – breathes out.) The
money does not bring happiness. That’s my answer to that question. The money
can take care of a lot. The money can handle certain things. Does it bring a
sense of self-worth? No. Does it bring a sense of self-satisfaction? No. In
fact, it’s easy to feel a sense of letdown, of betrayal because… I was raised
to glamorize Hollywood, as were we all, to think of it as fame and fortune and
parties. And that once I got a taste of that, everything would be fine, and
then I discovered that it wasn’t fine, actually, even highlighted all of the
ways that it was not fine.
As
far as the election, there’s only one question that I am asking myself, that I
have been asking myself, and it’s, “Can she do the job?” and the answer is
yes.
H:
So, I just take it back to your earlier question about, when you were talking
about, “I just like taking a bath,” and the small things and that. And I guess that’s
a nice level, because it’s easy for people to think how you’ve got money, so you
can’t get on the street, all the things that you need, and that’s not quite
resonating with people that small things… that we don’t necessarily think about
this in our hectic lives, it’s about taking a breather, I guess. And have you
found it… is it easy to take that step back, do you have to force yourself to
self-care?
WM:
I don’t… well, for me, I had to train myself to think about it because it wasn’t
a part of my natural day. My natural day was getting things done, what’s next.
In college, it was that quiz, that test, that exam, that lecture, that meeting,
that party. It was constantly focusing on things outside myself. Now I do
remind myself to take a breath and I do remind myself that what I need to
self-care is readily available. A day at the spa will stress me out, I don’t
find that to be a relaxing experience. I would much prefer to sit down on a
bench for five minutes. I’ve walked around the campus, I’ve seen a few benches
– those things are available to you. They might not work for you (laughs) in the same way that they work for
me, but to sit down, to take a breath, to take a moment, even if it’s for five
minutes – for me makes a world of difference.
H:
If we go and… over here, with the red coat.
Girl:
Hi. Nice to meet you, Went. The ManKind Project. Tell me about that and how did
it resonate with you to get you to the place where you are today.
WM:
ManKind Project. That’s an organization that I’m a part of in the States. It
was founded about 30 years ago, and it’s men supporting other men, doing what
they call “men’s work.” For me that meant… which was a new and initially
terrifying experience, sitting with a circle of men and sharing myself
honestly. For two years, every Monday night, from 7 to 10 o’clock I would meet
with six or ten men and we would talk about our day, our lives, what was up for
us, the good, the bad, the ugly, and the incredibly ugly. And it was an
intentionally sacred space, whatever you shared there was meant to stay there.
And… it did many things for me, it’d be hard to encapsulate in the time that we
have. One of them was that it felt as though… because there was a built-in
initiation process, and as you’re introduced to the Mankind Project, as you’re
allowed to kind of sit with these men and share in this way – it felt like for
the first time in my life I was tasting what I’d never tasted before, not in
the Western world, which was an initiation process. I think maybe if you’re going through a bar mitzvah, that
speaks to that process, to a degree. But speaking for myself, I never had a
moment where at 12, at 13 the village elder came to me and said, “Today, you
are a man, come and sit by the fire with your elders and hear the wisdom of the
ages. Let us model for you what it is to be a man – how man walks, how man
talks.” I didn’t get that education, so, like a lot of men, I was left to make
it up on my own which (chuckles)
resulted in a very mixed bag. It resulted in me feeling at 40 like I was a
man-boy still and hanging out in that grey space, so to sit with these men some
of whom were in their eighties, from all walks of life, to hear their stories, to
vibrate with that energy, and to feel supported in turn was revolutionary for
me. And it was the first place that I outed myself publicly. I’d been outing
myself as a gay man privately to family and friends for years prior but that
was the first community into which I walked and said, “I am a gay man,” and the
response was, “Great. Have a seat.” And that was it, and that was tremendous to
not have them make this big deal out of it, to not assign that weighty value
that I’ve been assigning it myself for years.
H:
And just to be completely honest with it yourself, I guess.
WM:
Yeah…
H:
In a way that wasn’t pressured.
WM:
To find a space where you feel like you have permission to be authentic is
precious. And we don’t get that necessarily with even friends and with even friends
and family. There is a reason that the men in the ManKind Project call each
other brothers, not friends, because a brother will tell you something that a
friend will not.
H:
On the front right here.
Boy:
So you’ve talked before about the things that you wouldn’t tell anyone and how
those would make you famous, so, essentially, putting yourself out there. My
question would be how do you deal with the criticism, the harsh criticism,
rather the hatred by the public on those things that you wouldn’t share?
WM:
Am I hated?
(Audience laughs.)
WM:
(laughs) I know what you mean. Well,
acting provides me a safe and structured container in which I get to put all of
those things that we are talking about. So when I’m playing Michael Scofield,
for example, and he’s having to get what he wants from someone and it looks
like tears, it looks like screaming, it looks like a wrestling match, none of
the words that he’s saying are mine, necessarily. And the emotions that I’m
pouring into that – no one’s gonna know where those are coming from,
necessarily. No one’s gonna know that I’m referencing that specific thing in my
childhood, that time that I experienced humiliation and fear and doubt that I’m
now bringing to the scene. No one will ever get that as an audience member, what
they’ll get is that Michael’s going through something, and it resonates as
true, it feels like there’s some juice here. That’s what I mean. So, acting
provides me a safe space in which to share myself. But it doesn’t look like me
writing an autobiography, necessarily. But it is me. But it’s not. But it’s me. But it’s not.
H:
I feel like when you were talking about the essays you’ve been writing, that kind
of, like, is blurring a boundary then, if you’re using personal experiences in
your safe spaces out of acting but then actually kind of breaking that down a little
bit through yourself and through what you’re writing. How was that process, how
did you feel about putting your cards on the table, in a way, that previously have been wrapped up in a performance?
WM:
It’s cathartic, it is always cathartic. There was an opportunity to reply to a
meme that went around not too long ago. I saw it come up in my social media
feed a couple of times. It struck me, it upset me, and then I did the work of
getting that out. And I put it down on a piece of paper, I decided to post
that, it wound up on “Facebook” and then it went to a lot of different places
and it spoke to a lot of people about different things – suicide, depression,
body issues, fat-shaming. And I was able to get it out of me, which felt good,
and then I was also able to see that my process of self-expression which is
inherently, I think, self-centered – and I use that phrase in a positive way –
can also be of service to others because I was able to put something into words
that a lot of people could relate to but wouldn’t necessarily speak to
themselves, for whatever reason. And that was heartening, that gave me
encouragement that when I go to those places and acknowledge, “This is hard for
me, this is fearful for me, this is a place where I feel shame,” I am going to
those places that everyone would want to go to if we had permission, which ties
back concretely for me to what it is to be an actor. One of my coaches used to
say that acting is… it’s considered a noble profession because an actor spends
their lives running toward the experiences and the emotions that the average
person spends their lives running away from.
That’s why it’s so important that we have actors, because through them and their
sharing and their storytelling we all get to experience, collectively, a kind
of catharsis and transformation.
H:
So, yes. Did you intend to be a role model through that, did you know that that
would be the fact?
WM:
No, I never intend to be a role model. (Laughs.)
I think if you approach people with that energy – “I have something to teach
you” – they immediately shut down, at least, I would. So all I can do is offer
up my example and hope that it resonates with someone. I’ve got a Facebook page
that I’ve been running for the last two years. It’s public, it’s got a lot of
likes, I post about gender identity and suicide and my few personal essays.
Very little of it is about something like “Prison Break” or “Legends of
Tomorrow,” and I’ve been asked, how do I pick what I post. And I pick what I
post… because I want to reach two people – myself and someone else. That page
exists to expand my own awareness, to service my own education, and then I hope
that someone out there, who might not even press the like button, who might not
ever comment, is also going to resonate with what it is I have to share and
say.
H:
If we go to the lady out there, with a grey scarf…
Girl:
I’m just curious what is success for you and if you can give a piece of advice
on how we can achieve it.
WM:
Success and how to achieve it. Success for me is feeling like I’m in alignment
with myself. Alignment for me is what I think is what I say is what I do, as
opposed to how I spent the first four decades of my life – which was what I
think is what I sometimes say, which is what I occ-a-sionally do. So when I’m able to get those things
to line up, I feel like whatever I’m doing, whatever I’m experiencing – that is
success. I’m sitting in my truth, I’m speaking to my truth. How to achieve
that? Practice. Speaking your truth takes practice and forgiveness. Forgiving
yourself for not getting it right, whatever “that” is, quote-unquote. Forgiving
yourself for not doing it beautifully. I remember, in college one of the
messages I felt like I was sitting with was “Do it beautifully or don’t do it
at all.” And if and when you do it beautifully, don’t tell anyone what went
into that. So, if someone asks you, you know, “Did you study for that test?”
the answer is always “No,” but you’ve been studying for three weeks or even
three months prior, so when you got that A, it just looks easy. That’s…
bullshit (WM and audience laugh), and
deeply unhelpful. So, to practice forgiveness, to expand my definition of what
right looks like so that I can work with that, so I don’t feel shame for
putting myself out there, forgiving myself for trying… and having it not work
out – all of these things are very important. I know someone who, for example, decided
to go to a law school and then, after a few months, thought, “This is not for
me.” And then they made what I felt was a very brave decision, which was to get
out of that thing that they realized was not for them as opposed to stay in it
because of appearances. And I know other people who went to law school,
graduated, and on the other side they’re like, “Fuck, I hate the law.” (Laughs.)
(Audience laughs.)
WM:
“But now I’ve got this degree, and I’ve got student debt, and I guess I gotta see
this thing out.” And to hear them speak of their life in that way makes me sad,
that’s not a road that I would choose for myself. So, don’t be afraid to try
and have it not work out. That’s part of success.
H:
Wonderful. So, I think we’ve got time for just one more question. Very briefly.
If we go to… Ah, there are so many people, how do I choose? The front row there,
with a check scarf.
Girl:
Thank you for that. So, I come from a background where there’s a stigma with
saying you’re depressed, so what are you views in terms of how to deal
culturally or to create more awareness that actually depression is a disease?
WM:
(exhales) I think, it depends on who
you’re talking to and what you feel might resonate most deeply with that
person. For example, there’s a video that I just did with “The Mighty,” it’s an
organization that speaks to a variety of illnesses and challenges, up to and
including mental health, and it was about… illustrating what depression can be
like for some people. Just a taste, it’s a 3-4 minute video. And I know that
people… appreciated that video because they were able to show it to their
friends and families and say, “Here, this is what that thing is, this is what
I’ve been trying to put into words all of these years,” because depression can
be difficult to describe. I think it might be links, it might be videos, it
might be conversations, it might be a one-on-one. I think the more people that
speak about depression – I believe Bruce Springsteen has just written an
autobiography where he speaks to depression’s influence in his life – that
expands people’s sense – his audience’s, his fans’, his readers’ – of what it
is permissible to talk about. I think we have to be willing to talk about
uncomfortable things, unspeakable things that remain unspoken. That creates a wall of silence. And
on the other side of that wall
people are suffering. So we have to be brave and, in our own time and way and
in a way that feels safe for us, enter into these conversations and start
breaking down the stigma. And I think that’s how it’s done – by talking about
it, by being open about it. When and if it feels safe and comfortable and right
for you.
H:
Well... I think we all leave feeling… self-assured, I guess, and hopefully I,
I’ve taken a lot from this. I do hope everyone else has, and please do join me
in thanking the wonderful Wentworth Miller.
(Audience’s applause.)
WM:
(mouths) Thank you. Thank you. Bye.
*****
Russian translation: http://rosemarygreen.blogspot.ru/2017/03/wentworth-miller-full-q-oxford-union_14.html
Me (and the YouTube Automatic Subtitles) may have misheard parts of some questions because of the speakers' accents and tempos but Mr. Miller's clear articulation in answers was music to transcribe.😊
Me (and the YouTube Automatic Subtitles) may have misheard parts of some questions because of the speakers' accents and tempos but Mr. Miller's clear articulation in answers was music to transcribe.😊
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